Back in da Day...
My little sister had a picture from when i was still skinny (which was way back when)... And the whole time i looked at it i kept thinking... That is the person that wanted to sleep with Gomer Pyle... I was truly horrified...
--
I don't like to look at old picture too long, because i keep wondering what i was thinking around the time the picture was taken. Like, exactly what was my feeling about my homosexuality, and who did i find attractive at that time. 'cause basically i don't really know... i know how i felt overall during that period, but i wonder about that instance. And for the life of me, i cannot remember who i was fond of at all, unless i see them again; like Gomer Plye, i totally forgot about him, i also forgot about the guy that played the detective on "the killer condom". I totally forgot about "the Killer Condom", my first 'gay' movie, too.
I have a really bad memory; i wish i kept a diary during my childhood, but it was too risky. If they had found it, i thought that would surely have been the end of me. I tried an Audio diary once, but i kept my homosexuality out of it (at the time i couldn’t even mutter gay, homosexual, or anything else out loud), and when i was gone one day it had been found, so that was really the end of my record keeping.
I only remember bits and pieces; either i was too boring to have anything worth remembering or i'm trying not to remember.
I think if i did keep a diary, it would have been an invaluable tool for me. I'd love to see where my homosexuality came into play; when i truly knew i was gay. I would also like to remember my first man-crush. So much stuff i would like to know about myself, odd huh?
I really dislike old pictures...
[EDIT]
I just remembered something…
When I was a kid, I always told myself, that in the future, If possible, I would come back through time, pick up me at a certain time, then go forward like a few mins then drop me off. So that there would be two Brians at one time. *insert incest?*; because since I was the only gay guy looking for a relationship, I wouldn't have to be alone. Really I was that fucked up...
God! i feel like i need to be laying down on a couch....
posted by Brian Smith @ 2:13 AM
17 Comments:
Hi, stumbled across your blog via Queerfilter. I grew up in Tulsa, when I was around 25 though, I left for the coast, but your posts remind me much of my own past in Oklahoma.
I would have been 23 in 1988, to give you a perspective of the era, but I hear that the midwest hasn't changed much in values.
I wanted to comment on this post. For me, it was the exact opposite. Every important moment in the development of my sexuality is seared into my memory. I never looked at it that way, or thought about it before, until I read your post.
My first affections for guys weren't sexual at all. Just more of a longing for a more intimate relationship. A soulful connection. That was before I really knew what sex was though, I'm talking young. When I learned what sex was, and also the dynamics of relationships (as much as a young person can comprehend them), I realized 'hey yeah, that's it. I want a boyfriend'.
Then of course, the dreaded uh-oh, but I'm not supposed to want that.
Anyway, when I was about 21, I went though an upheaval, for lack of a better term, in regards to my self-esteem and my sense of self-worth. It was at that time, that my memory really benefitted me, as I was able to look back at these key moments and answer the questions I was asking, not unlike the questions you are asking yourself now. It helped me to understand myself, define myself, and become at peace and then ultimately proud of myself. (by proud, I mean having totally abandoned the closet, and of course, in the 80's, that basically meant me moving to the coast. So I did.)
My way-too-lengthy point is that those memories are useful. I recommend, in all sincerity, and from one gay brother to another, to try to remember those memories. Or try to figure out why you cannot. Because ultimately, they ARE worth remembering. Wishing you the best.
There are very few things that i can remember from the past, and only a hand full are gay related.
The furthest back memory that was gay related was when i was about 5-6-7 somewhere in there. But after that there is a huge gap between then and the next thing i remember.
I think i posted about the memories i could remember here.
But if i only relied on those memories, i found my first guy super attractive in 8th grade; First crush on a guy senior year of high school; but i knew around 6-7-8... it doesn't add up.
And then other then those memories, all the others that are gay related are depressing. What i actually remember is these:
Liking Adam better then Eve; Being Told what Gay/Bi/Straight is; Praying to be changed; Crying a lot; being told "i'm going to have a wife and kids one day" and feeling like shit; and being told "your the only kid that can carry this side of the smith's name", and feeling like shit; Finding a new transfer student attractive... This is almost all i have from the time i was born to the end of 8th grade.
i have remembered some other stuff, but they are not clear; Take Gomer Pyle for instance, i remember that i though he was cute, but when i don't know. I don't even remember watching the show when i was little. All i remember is the "gollly" guy was kinda cute. And the only reason i remember that was because i was looking up on Rock Hudson (since i watched the Celluloid Closet) and his name was in a story about him.
So i know that i seen the show, and that i though he was cute... 'bout it.
But there is a lot of things like that, i remember that i use to watch 'Small Wonder' but i have no idea what happened on any of the episodes. I remember the basic plot of the whole show: "hide the robot". I remember that i use to watch it all the time, but i can't seem to remember anyone's name on there.
And sometimes people i know will start talking about the past, and i have no idea what they are talking about, but they remember me being there.
I'm hoping that i see more stuff that brings back memories, like seeing Gomer Pyle on the internet.
"There are very few things that i can remember from the past, and only a hand full are gay related."
Could it be possible a traumatic event is causing you to forget things? Have you talked to your parents or anybody about your memory loss in general, whether or not discussion of sexuality was included?
"First crush on a guy senior year of high school; but i knew around 6-7-8... it doesn't add up."
I don't understand what you mean by it not adding up. You knew around 6-8 that you liked guys, but didn't find a guy you like until years later. What doesn't add up about that? I don't understand, did you think that the moment you realized you liked guys, you'd fall for one?
"And then other then those memories, all the others that are gay related are depressing."
The vast majority of my memories are depressing. There was a time I was suicidal too. It took me many many years to understand that it wasn't the gayness itself that was depressing but outside factors that made for such a depressing situation. I hope you know what I'm talking about, I'm probably not wording it the best way.
"Liking Adam better then Eve"
I read your story about being handed the page of Eve. Do you recall with certainity that the jealously you felt was because you wanted to date Adam, or at such a young age, could it be possible you were just jealous for something you weren't offered, regardless of what it was? That would be common for that age.
"being told "i'm going to have a wife and kids one day" and feeling like shit"
I know what you mean, but a lot of people, including straight people get hit with this social pressure too. (Moms telling their daughters, "when are you going to give me grandchildren", etc.) This pressure is so great societally, that a lot of people can rush to marriage, which makes for a higher divorce rate. Their lives get messed up too by this pressure, but differently. Just hoping to help you see another perspective.
"and being told "your the only kid that can carry this side of the smith's name", and feeling like shit;"
My speciality! I have good news for you. You can carry on your family name. You are young, you have a long life ahead of you, if you take care of yourself. I had parental urges my whole life, it was a large part of my misery, wanting a house with a white picket fence, kids, thinking I could never have that and my life was condemned to growing old in a bar until I was the old troll in the corner that everybody looked down on. I was afraid and miserable. My view of the gay world was confined to bars, that was the only place I knew to find my peers, so my perception of the gay world was bar life oriented, and I didn't want that, but didn't know of anything else.
Now here I am, 40 years old, I have a 2 year old daughter who is biologically mine (surrogacy, check out places like http://www.growinggenerations.com ) and my partner has gone through the legal adoption of a stepparent here in California. We are both on the birth certificate, there is no mother. So don't let carrying on the family name pressure make you feel bad, because if you don't really want it, then that's your right, but if you do want it, it IS within your reach, so no need to feel like shit over that. Gay parenting is actually what my blog is about.
"All i remember is the "gollly" guy was kinda cute."
If your perception of everything gay was depressing, could it be possible you were attracted to his innocence? Just throwing ideas out to ponder.
"i remember that i use to watch 'Small Wonder'"
With Gomer Pyle, Rock Hudson and now Small Wonder (a show I don't remember!), it seems there's a lot here revolving around the tv. I guess I should read more of your blog before I try to help ponder things too much.
"I remember that i use to watch it all the time, but i can't seem to remember anyone's name on there."
Well, that sounds pretty common. Who can remember the names of television stars or characters from years past?
I don't really know what is up with my memory. I know that me and my cousins from Texas (when they lived in OK) where suppose to been real close. But i can't remember anything about them, but i can remember watching Night of the Living Dead on the TV. Is weird ass stuff like that. But no, i've never discussed it... one main reason for this blog is so that i can look back and remember...
I don't understand what you mean by it not adding up. You knew around 6-8 that you liked guys, but didn't find a guy you like until years later. What doesn't add up about that? I don't understand, did you think that the moment you realized you liked guys, you'd fall for one?I knew that Adam was physically appealing, but the next memory of that was in 8th grade, that is what doesn't add up. I'm almost sure that there had to be someone i found attractive between those memories (not counting TV/Movies), but i just can't remember.
The vast majority of my memories are depressing. There was a time I was suicidal too. It took me many many years to understand that it wasn't the gayness itself that was depressing but outside factors that made for such a depressing situation. I hope you know what I'm talking about, I'm probably not wording it the best way.I know exactly what your talking about. Like, even now, i'm a sour puss when i'm home. It's a lot of bitterness i feel, because of some of the things that i do remember, but when i'm out or even when i'm talking to someone like my little sister, who has been great about it, i feel better.
Like when i was at TOHR, i felt great; when i was at the gay bar in Tusla, i felt great; when i'm riding around with the other gay guy from here, i feel great... when i'm home, i feel less then great. Even though i don't feel comfortable at those places, mainly because it's all new, it's just that i'm not worrying that they are going to judge me if i say something 'gay'. And also hearing them talk, and the two guys working there saying that they love each other, makes me feel better. Where i'm at, like most everywhere else probably, that is something that you don't see.
Do you recall with certainty that the jealously you felt was because you wanted to date Adam, or at such a young age, could it be possible you were just jealous for something you weren't offered, regardless of what it was? That would be common for that age.I liked Adam better. It wasn't because she had the pic and i wanted it, it was because i didn't want the one she gave me because it didn't interest me. She was getting the better deal, was where the jealously came into play.
I know what you mean, but a lot of people, including straight people get hit with this social pressure too. (Moms telling their daughters, "when are you going to give me grandchildren", etc.) This pressure is so great societally, that a lot of people can rush to marriage, which makes for a higher divorce rate. Their lives get messed up too by this pressure, but differently. Just hoping to help you see another perspective.My problem with that is the word Wife. What made me feel like shit is that whenever i had the 'White Picket Fence' dream, there was another guy every time i seen my 'partner'.
I had parental urges my whole life, it was a large part of my misery, wanting a house with a white picket fence, kids, thinking I could never have that and my life was condemned to growing old in a bar until I was the old troll in the corner that everybody looked down on. I was afraid and miserable. My view of the gay world was confined to bars, that was the only place I knew to find my peers, so my perception of the gay world was bar life oriented, and I didn't want that, but didn't know of anything else.
My parental urges comes and goes; When i was a kid, i always wanted that house with a white picket fence and kids; if it was one thing in the world i wanted it was that. But during High School, Me an my cousin, had the same idea, no kids at all. I don't know what her reason was, but mine was basically thinking that this world is a pile of shit and it should be a sin to bring anything into it. Now, it's up in the air. The world isn't that big of a pile i though it was, mainly because of me meeting people that are not assholes when it comes to gay people. What is keeping me from saying "yea, i want kids" is that i don't think i could handle the responsibility. That is most likely going to change.
If your perception of everything gay was depressing, could it be possible you were attracted to his innocence? Just throwing ideas out to ponder.Exactly what i was thinking! I think that it was probably that overall; he wasn't bad looking either. But yea, there is something to that. I know that many of the guys i've been attracted to have had that in common. or maybe i find that the 'bad boys' are un-attractive. One of the guys from HS i was attracted to was one of those Christian Rock groupies; he was so softly spoken, and had this innocent charm about him. I think mainly i'm attracted to those types, is because if we were to be intimate it wouldn’t be sex, it would be something more.
it seems there's a lot here revolving around the tv. I guess I should read more of your blog before I try to help ponder things too much.I'm south of a town that is small, making where i'm at smaller; all we have is tv... tv and dirt and rocks. :-)
There was really nothing to do around here, i would have to travel about a mile or two or three, to the next kid my age, that i actually wanted to hang out with. Not that i could go there, because i never liked bikes so i didn't have one... Skates is what i had, and try skating on gravel. I did get a motorcycle later, but that's getting close to HS time.
Well, that sounds pretty common. Who can remember the names of television stars or characters from years past?Yea, your right. but it's even worse, i can't remember if there was 3 people and a robot or 2 people and a robot. I keep thinking Dad - Son - Daughter (?) - Robot. The Daughter is giving me trouble, was there a Daughter or not... now that is bad.
Grrrr... Blogger.
I guess it hates long posts; i hope it isn't to hard to read. I Italicize what you said and mine in reg print.
I don't really know what is up with my memory. I know that me and my cousins from Texas (when they lived in OK) where suppose to been real close. But i can't remember anything about them, but i can remember watching Night of the Living Dead on the TV. Is weird ass stuff like that.
It's hard for someone who doesn't know you except from the brief writings here on this blog to get an accurate feel for what you are talking about, but most of my recollections of my childhood....faces have faded, scenes remain, some pieces remain but many other pieces go. I was 4 years old, when I got ahold of a steak knife and threw it at a little girl who lived two doors down. I was too young to know the consequences. I missed hitting her (thank God), but the overall scene was still very traumatic for me as a 4 year old (I went through pretty massive and rightly deserved punishment). The scene I remember, the blonde hair I remember, the face I don't. Should I? I never thought it was an important fact to need to remember. We can't remember everything.
IF you are talking about, what I think you are talking about, I think it's normal. And if you were very very young, as you say, it's no wonder a show like Night of the Living Dead remains in your memory.
one main reason for this blog is so that i can look back and remember...
I see. I hope I'm not intruding.
I knew that Adam was physically appealing, but the next memory of that was in 8th grade, that is what doesn't add up. I'm almost sure that there had to be someone i found attractive between those memories (not counting TV/Movies), but i just can't remember
*shrugging*. I don't know. For me personally, I had several year stretches between finding people attractive enough to get to want to know better, even though what I always really wanted was a relationship. (not counting the unrealistic gods of internet porn). I mean I had lust, mostly not acting on it, but that's normal too.
.....the two guys working there saying that they love each other, makes me feel better. Where i'm at, like most everywhere else probably, that is something that you don't see.
No, you don't see it in most places, I guess to me, it is perception. My partner and I grew up in Tulsa, and both were closeted for a good portion of our young lives. It became natural to refrain from 'saying something gay' or showing affection in public. Yeah, it's not right that society is that way, but it is what it is. And now it's just a part of us. I mean it's not a worry to refrain from saying something gay in the wrong place, because it is now natural for me to not do so, without giving it conscious thought. Does that make sense? It's no more of a mental burden, but it was for a long time, so I know what you are talking about. And no, my solution might not be perfect, it's still unfair that I had to become conditioned that way, but that's life. Other people encounter unfair situations in life, that way just happened to be one of mine.
it was because i didn't want the one she gave me because it didn't interest me. She was getting the better deal, was where the jealously came into play.
well if you think about it, regardless if it was a man, a piece of candy or the remote control, getting jealous over not getting the better deal is a natural reaction itself, isn't it? Especially at a young age.
My problem with that is the word Wife. What made me feel like shit is that whenever i had the 'White Picket Fence' dream, there was another guy every time i seen my 'partner'.
Yeah, I did too. And I didn't know that it was all possible to have, the man AND the family, but it is possible and thankfully people like you and younger can know that so these feelings of shit can maybe be dying down in our community.
I don't know what her reason was, but mine was basically thinking that this world is a pile of shit and it should be a sin to bring anything into it. Now, it's up in the air. The world isn't that big of a pile i though it was, mainly because of me meeting people that are not assholes when it comes to gay people.
Sigh. The gay community does have it's share of assholes. But I've known straight ones too, and some really great gay people. Yeah, it just takes getting out and knowing more people to make that discovery for yourself, but it sounds like you are.
I think mainly i'm attracted to those [innocent] types, is because if we were to be intimate it wouldn’t be sex, it would be something more.
That's understandable, but I should point out that it's an incorrect assumption, but I'm sure you've already realized that. It isn't 'bad boys' that just want sex and innocent guys that want something more. Because society had condemned homosexuality as being bad, it was natural for me to fall in with the 'bad boys'. I thought that was where I belonged. So I grew my hair long, wore the concert t-shirts, skipped class with the troublemakers in high school, etc. Did my share of high school antics, but all the time, I was just a guy wanting love, something soulful with another guy. And I know I can't have been the only 'bad boy' on the planet who wanted that.
When it comes to gay men who don't want to settle down and who might use you, it's not the 'gay' part that's doing that. It's the 'men' part. You will find that out and you'll also find out, that it's not all men, but yeah, we all have to kiss a few toads before we find our prince.
Also, as I got older and started understanding more about my community by reading queer theory or historical books, etc. I began to realize that 'bad' behavior wasn't necessarily because the person was 'bad'. Society is very oppressive and condemning to gay people. We can't expect everybody who goes through that, to handle it perfectly. I know I sure didn't, but I survived and turned out alright. But that atmosphere can create a lot of negative self-worth and even inner hatred. People can begin to engage in self-destructive behaviors because they subconsciously feel they aren't worth anything better. Drug use goes up, unsafe promiscuous behavior goes up. Self-destructive behaviors that stem from living in an oppressive environment. How can I fault somebody for that? It's not what I want, but it doesn't mean such things come from bad intent.
I hope I'm helping by giving you ideas and new avenues to think about.
IF you are talking about, what I think you are talking about, I think it's normal. I would agree with you, but what i'm told is that we were always hanging out since i was born 'till i was about 5. They said that they almost lived there; Since my dad and there dad worked night shifts, They came over with there mom and stayed most of the time.
one main reason for this blog is so that i can look back and remember...
I see. I hope I'm not intruding.Not at all! I welcome all comments; Negative or Positive. Yet, to have a negative one, though.
I don't know. For me personally, I had several year stretches between finding people attractive enough to get to want to know better, even though what I always really wanted was a relationship. (not counting the unrealistic gods of internet porn). I mean I had lust, mostly not acting on it, but that's normal too.Maybe i'm like that too; i'm just wondering why i didn't when my classmates did. I remember them asking me who i would 'do' between two women, and thinking i would get it wrong.
No, you don't see it in most places, I guess to me, it is perception. My partner and I grew up in Tulsa, and both were closeted for a good portion of our young lives. It became natural to refrain from 'saying something gay' or showing affection in public. Yeah, it's not right that society is that way, but it is what it is. And now it's just a part of us. I mean it's not a worry to refrain from saying something gay in the wrong place, because it is now natural for me to not do so, without giving it conscious thought. Does that make sense? It's no more of a mental burden, but it was for a long time, so I know what you are talking about. And no, my solution might not be perfect, it's still unfair that I had to become conditioned that way, but that's life. Other people encounter unfair situations in life, that way just happened to be one of mine.
It is a shame that our society is that way; but what’s worse is tht our society is such 'that way' that when i actually do see that it's a big deal to me. Like the best part of the gay bar i went to was that i got to see two guys kiss, the best part about going into the GLBT Center was i heard two guys say they love each other, and the best part of my Vegas Vacation was seeing a couple gay couples. Oh, and the best part of my whole time at Tulsa Community Collage is seeing the lesbian wear her pink triangle pin.
I think that that lesbian is probably the major reason i started to come out when i did. Hearing someone in our class give an oral report, basically insulting me and her, saying that we shouldn't be allowed to marry. If it was only me i probably wouldn't have said anything, but it wasn't only me. Even though i only asked her a question, and kept my sexuality out of it, that was the first time i tried to defend homosexuality without using the old "i don't care what two adults do". A few weeks later, my comp II teacher knew i was gay.
Then the end of the next semester, this time at OSU-Tulsa, i came out to my entire (minus one idiot) Biz-Comm class; which was a good 20-30 people.
Sigh. The gay community does have it's share of assholes. But I've known straight ones too, and some really great gay people. Yeah, it just takes getting out and knowing more people to make that discovery for yourself, but it sounds like you are.
Oh no, Honey: the straight people where all assholes, Gay people where good people, just sluts then. Maybe i could have said that better:
...me meeting people that are not assholes when it comes to homosexuality.
That's understandable, but I should point out that it's an incorrect assumption, but I'm sure you've already realized that. It isn't 'bad boys' that just want sex and innocent guys that want something more.But i think it was more then sex, when i think about it. I guess i also felt that these 'Innocent' types wouldn't know how to hurt me. I know that the guy i was attracted to was really kind. He got hell for it, but he couldn't have been nicer. And if someone was crying he was the first one asking what was wrong. I don't think that he even knew how to be bad, even when he was rough-housing with the boys, you can tell was only using a fraction of what the other guys where. (lol... i think my crush is coming back).
So I grew my hair long, wore the concert t-shirts, I did similar stuff, but never hung out with the trouble makers. I wore the HUGE 80in (i think is what it said) new age bellbottoms (still have them, and put them one once and awhile). The Band T-Shirts, which i still wear, were part of my outfit. Always listened to 'sinful' music: Marilyn Manson... etc. Still do. But i think that i like those things. The Bellbottoms were cool, they were different. The Band T-Shirts were always the band i liked at the time; KoRn. and i like Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails, because of the lyrics. If i try hard enough (and not so hard sometimes) i can see some of the feeling i felt.
Like in my graphic above is a line from a Nine Inch Nails song, and i can see that sometimes:
Hiding Backwards Inside of me I feel So Unafraid.
reading queer theory or historical books, etc. I began to realize that 'bad' behavior wasn't necessarily because the person was 'bad'. Society is very oppressive and condemning to gay people. We can't expect everybody who goes through that, to handle it perfectly. I read something like that too. And i know that i would have been different if i wasn't oppressed. When i do think about stuff, that is happening, even now, i'm filled with anger. It make my whole mood shitty (psss... if you see anything real negative on this blog [hahah 'If'], is because i'm alone at home... and when i'm alone my mind wonders, and it usually wonders toward what is in the news... And how many times have you seen something good on the news?)
But i think the major source of the anger is that i'm not doing enough about it. I haven't made peace with that old me, the one that laughed at the gay jokes to fit in, the one that when asked if he was gay said no, the one that wanted to change...
and when i start to think about me going out and starting to date, i think to myself, 'am i worth it?' It's always a no. I want it, but not worth it, 'cause i think that i'd be the broken half of the relationship. Like this t-shirt i seen once, said, "I Bring nothing to the table".
I hope I'm helping by giving you ideas and new avenues to think about.Yea, you sure are...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
I would agree with you, but what i'm told is that we were always hanging out since i was born 'till i was about 5. They said that they almost lived there; Since my dad and there dad worked night shifts, They came over with there mom and stayed most of the time.
well, yeah, I think there should be some pretty clear memories about that, I guess. I'm not a doctor and so don't want to give any type of analysis or anything, it's not my place. I mean if it's a traumatic event or something that caused it, it would be irresponsible of me to try and give advice. I hope you get things worked out there and I think a blog is a good way to sort out your thoughts.
One thing that helped me, is looking at patterns in my life. You could get a blog that categorizes your thoughts, and put them in categories like 'thoughts of relationships', or 'thoughts about the Religious Right' or 'thoughts of different types of men', and then when you get enough in a category, look for patterns of behavior.
My 'upheaval' that I talked about earlier, where I came to terms with things in my life and left the closet didn't really happen overnight. It took several years to build up the courage and sort things out. Then the actual process itself was probably 5 years until I realized one day that I was living as a proud, good man. Working on your self-worth and character takes a lifetime of course, and patterns helped greatly. I realized that one of the reasons why I would go from job to job, maybe staying at someplace for a few years, but never really building a career was because of a fear of success/responsibility, which stemmed from my low self-worth (which stemmed from growing up in a condemning world). It sounds obvious, but when it takes place over many many years, you can't see the patterns, like you can't see the forest for the trees, as the saying goes. Categorizing things like that helps you zero in on finer details.
Maybe i'm like that too; i'm just wondering why i didn't when my classmates did. I remember them asking me who i would 'do' between two women, and thinking i would get it wrong.
How can you get it wrong? I mean, I sort of know what you're saying, you're worried about an answer that might make them laugh at you or give you away or something, but really there's nothing to worry about. How can you get such a question wrong? I would have said something like 'whichever one said yes' or whichever one swallowed or something stupid like that and we all would have laughed and then I would have fantasized about both girls having hunky brothers and.....heehee.
but what’s worse is tht our society is such 'that way' that when i actually do see that it's a big deal to me.Good. Times are tough and can get tougher, we need that passion in our younger generation. You can channel that energy, that concern for what's going on, into action and not only do you make a difference in the world around you, but you build your pride and your character. It's a win win situation all around. When that concern for what's going on hits you, consider it a source of energy and channel it into something productive. Trust me, just like bad things can have a snowball effect, so can positive things.
Like the best part of the gay bar i went to was that i got to see two guys kiss, the best part about going into the GLBT Center was i heard two guys say they love each other, and the best part of my Vegas Vacation was seeing a couple gay couples. Oh, and the best part of my whole time at Tulsa Community Collage is seeing the lesbian wear her pink triangle pin.I think you need to get into a gay environment for awhile. Have you considered seeing the world? Moving to a big city, or making some change from a small town? What keeps you there?
A few weeks later, my comp II teacher knew i was gay.
In conservative environments, a speaking out on behalf of equality for gay people is perceived as only being possible coming from a gay person. So yeah, there are times and places where, when you speak out against homophobia or discrimination, questions of your sexuality come up. It's sad and it's wrong, but it is ultimately only as big a factor in what you need to do, as you let it be.
Then the end of the next semester, this time at OSU-Tulsa, i came out to my entire (minus one idiot) Biz-Comm class; which was a good 20-30 people.
I hope it was a good experience. When I came out to my family, I had to move to California first and come out in a strange place, get used to that, then get up the courage to tell my family 'back home'. After I told them, all I could do was kick myself in the butt for not telling them years earlier.
Oh no, Honey: the straight people where all assholes, Gay people where good people, just sluts then. Maybe i could have said that better:
...me meeting people that are not assholes when it comes to homosexuality.
oh, I see what you mean, and I agree completely. We aren't perfect as I said, and because of all we've been through as a community, I honestly feel that our community has a large percentage of immaturity. It sounds bad, and I love my gay brothers to death, but there are many, many who just haven't grown up.
(lol... i think my crush is coming back).
I love reminiscing about the good stuff. I think you are expressive and a dreamer. I'm a dreamer. My mind can take me in daydreams to completely other worlds and I love it. Have you considered writing for a career, or are you working towards that end? You obviously like writing or you wouldn't have a blog, and maybe when you get that energy I talked about earlier, about when things are going on in the world, you can channel that energy into writing.
That's what I wanted to do, and why I started a blog, but raising a kid is so full time, it didn't turn out that way for me, but I'm okay with it. Now my blog is more just a family scrapbook actually, not what I intended it to be. I wanted to be a pundit. I wanted to reach the world and make a difference, shit, what can I say, I'm a dreamer.
Always listened to 'sinful' music: Marilyn Manson... etc. Still do. But i think that i like those things. The Bellbottoms were cool, they were different. The Band T-Shirts were always the band i liked at the time; KoRn. and i like Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails, because of the lyrics. If i try hard enough (and not so hard sometimes) i can see some of the feeling i felt.
I'm 40 years old and I have 2 NIN cds. Since I'm a child of the 80's though, for me it was Dio, Whitesnake, Led Zeppelin, OLD Aerosmith, all the way to Bon Jovi, Poison, Ratt, Quiet Riot, etc. ah yes, it was the era of big hair and tight spandex pants and I loved it.
Like in my graphic above is a line from a Nine Inch Nails song, and i can see that sometimes:
Hiding Backwards Inside of me I feel So Unafraid.
My favorites are Closer and Happiness in Slavery, for reasons we shall not get into!
when i'm alone my mind wonders, and it usually wonders toward what is in the news... And how many times have you seen something good on the news?)
Which is another reason why you could channel it into writing. Also writing can give you something to do since there's nothing there but dirt and rocks, and it's more productive and will expand your mind better than tv anyway!
As far as good stuff on the news, I've seen some, but yeah, I know what you're sayin, news is more often about bad events than good stuff, but isn't regular tv news that way as well? It's the nature of the news. I guess, now that I think about it, with the exception of reporting on the passing of some civil rights law or something, most of the good stuff I read about are like interviews, or editorials, essays, commentaries, etc. Not the 'headline' type news. But bad or good, it's stuff we need to know, right? A necessary evil, I suppose.
But i think the major source of the anger is that i'm not doing enough about it. I haven't made peace with that old me, the one that laughed at the gay jokes to fit in, the one that when asked if he was gay said no, the one that wanted to change...
You gotta make peace with him. It takes time and you will, because you already know you need to.
and when i start to think about me going out and starting to date, i think to myself, 'am i worth it?' It's always a no. I want it, but not worth it, 'cause i think that i'd be the broken half of the relationship. Like this t-shirt i seen once, said, "I Bring nothing to the table".You gotta work on that too. And you will, you've already started by wanting to improve yourself through your blog. I know my flaws now, that alone makes them not so strong. We all have them, but I also know that I'm a good guy, honest, compassionate, caring, etc. Do you not have all those values? It sounds like you do, just based on what I've read so far, so you do bring something to the table, don't you? You want a meaningful deep romantic relationship with another guy. Isn't that a pretty damn good thing you're offering someone? You bring a lot to the table and you deserve no less than what you yourself are willing to put into something, right? Damn right. :-)
How can you get it wrong? I mean, I sort of know what you're saying, you're worried about an answer that might make them laugh at you or give you away or something, but really there's nothing to worry about. How can you get such a question wrong?This is going to show how gay i really am: I thought it might have been a trick. Like somehow one of them was 10x as 'better'. I think i kinda remember who it was... one of them was the chick that played lois lane, on the newest Superman TV show at the time. I think she is now on desperate housewife’s. Then it was Pam Anderson, this one is the one i'm not sure about. It ended up 'Lois' was the correct answer, since that was what everyone else picked; I also picked her, since the 'alpha' kid picked her first, but if i were to answer before he said anything, i would have picked the other one, because i knew that someone had said she was attractive once.
I still have the problem picking the 'least attractive' ones; me and my sister sometimes talk and once and awhile we can agree, but lately we've been disagreeing... We'll be driving and she will be like 'He's cute' and i gag. and vice versa. But more people agree with her. I about died when she said Dave Attell wasn't cute...
You can channel that energy, that concern for what's going on, into action and not only do you make a difference in the world around you, but you build your pride and your character.I'm 100% going to go to the gay pride parade, unless something special comes up. Well, since Tulsa isn't going to have the parade this year, i guess i'll be going to the picnic... Still it's something. But around the end of high school and even now, i would love to do something... But the lack of a car and the lack of time is problems. I keep telling myself that after school and after i get stable out on my own, i would like to do something.
My favorite dream has always been where i was a public speaker for GLBT rights. That isn't going to happen, mainly because i'm a horrible speaker. But i would like to do something to help the person that can be that speaker.
And when i think of the perfect partner, i think of someone that would like to spend weekends at the GLBT centers, and be there for anyone who happens to come in.
I think you need to get into a gay environment for awhile. Have you considered seeing the world? Moving to a big city, or making some change from a small town? What keeps you there?
Once, i considered just traveling for awhile. I still would like to travel a bit, but what i would really like is someone there to travel with me. Yea, it would be fun, but i think i would have a better time with someone else. I mean, that on senior trip, we went to Florida for a couple days, and i had a blast. It was just me and people my age; and our chaperons were, basically, outnumbered; so it was almost like we were on our own.
I would love to move closer to the city, i don't think i could handle living too close to it. I actually like Tulsa, but i doubt i could live in it... on the other hand i think it would be fun though.
And School and a lack of money keeps me here, but even if i had the money, i probably would just move only a few miles away. Back in the day, i thought, this little place above Sapulpa would have been a great place to live. It reminded me of here, with wide open spaces, but it was closer to the city.
But even further back in the day, i wanted to live in a bigger city then Tulsa.
So i'm up on the fence with this one, i would love to live in a city for the people, but i would like to have the freedoms that come with living in a rueal area.
I hope it was a good experienceYea it was. I almost fainted, but it was good. i just wish i had been more clear with my presentation, cause it seems that only 99% of the class got it. One guy, after seeing what my teacher wrote about my presentation (something along the lines that it was good that i told them what was my stake in the report[about GLBT rights in the workplace]) he laughed that she thought i was gay! I was too stunned to say anything; i just looked at him and thought, "are you a unicorn?"
Have you considered writing for a career, or are you working towards that end? You obviously like writing or you wouldn't have a blog, and maybe when you get that energy I talked about earlier, about when things are going on in the world, you can channel that energy into writing.
I've threw that one up in the air once [being a writer] recently. But my writing skills are not that good, by a long shot. But I love writing and reading about homosexuality. I think that homosexuality is one thing that can grab my attention 100% of the time. If i were to count the books i've read, because i wanted to read something, books that contain homosexuality as the subject would make up about 90% of that list. I was never a big reader, but the last few months i've read a couple books; and they were all over homosexuality (coming out/homophobia/etc.).
I'm 40 years old and I have 2 NIN cds.I have two also (well 3, i bought one twice, since my old cd was scratched, and since the new CD came with Music Videos), but tons of MP3s, and two DVDs. They're coming out with a new one this year, so i'm going to have to pick that one up.
My favorites are Closer and Happiness in Slavery, for reasons we shall not get into!Ahh.. loved those songs too; but by far my favorite is either Hurt or The Great Below.
I know what you're sayin, news is more often about bad events than good stuff, but isn't regular tv news that way as well? I stopped watching local news a long time ago. It was horrible. I remember watching Bowling for Columbine and them talking about how News Hypes up stuff to make you watch.. and remembering seeing on the news the perils of riding escalators. They were going to suck you up and kill you or something.. then they had to do that inverse effect on people's faces (ya' know white is black and black is white in the picture). And it ended up that your untied shoes were spelling your doom. and by doom they meant a bruise.
Do you not have all those values?Yea, i am a good guy, honest (that sorta funny me coming out of the closet and all not too long ago), compassionate, caring, etc. The problem is that i don't know how to express them. Basically all my social skills come from TV. My parents weren't the ones that would show emotion or anything; so every time i feel that way i think to myself that if i try to express those feeling that it will come off like TV; not real. Like i'm acting or something. Like everything i will say will be full of clichés and will be cheesy. That it will come off hollow.
But what i can offer, i think should be a given. that i offer nothing more then that. Nothing special or unique.
It ended up 'Lois' was the correct answer, since that was what everyone else picked
I don't get it. Maybe it's a generational thing. Why does everyone have to pick the same one? I don't see....if I picked Pam and everybody else picked Lois, why would I be wrong? I would just have different tastes. Is there really a wrong answer to a question like that for people today?
We'll be driving and she will be like 'He's cute' and i gag. and vice versa. But more people agree with her.
Makes for less competition for you.
My favorite dream has always been where i was a public speaker for GLBT rights. That isn't going to happen, mainly because i'm a horrible speaker. But i would like to do something to help the person that can be that speaker.
Research. Become a speechwriter. You are a good writer, the escalator bruise story was funny. Become an agent, so when you find the speaker who moves you, you can be the one to work on getting his message out in various places, I mean there are a lot of choices, you'll find your path. And if you do choose to live/stay in a small town, some form of writing, I think would be the only way you can accomplish your dream of doing something important for our community. At least, I can't think of any other way immediately offhand, but I'm sure there are some other things.
So i'm up on the fence with this one, i would love to live in a city for the people, but i would like to have the freedoms that come with living in a rueal area.
You've mentioned the good and the bad of living in a rural area. You like the space, but at the same time, you crave the socialization (as anybody would). It's kind of a one-or-the-other deal though unless you become really rich, so you will eventually have to make a decision, city or country and then when you make that decision, don't look back and don't regret giving up the choice you gave up. I mean, if you decide to live remotely, you can't let the lack of getting to meet people get to you. It will kill you because it's worrying about something out of your control, know what I mean?
To me, Tulsa was small town. Even though there were probably 250-400k people there when I was there,I don't remember exactly, it was a small town atmosphere. Small town people, small town values, so to me, it was small town. I craved the big city, I pictured it to be excitement, gorgeous men (I had a few shallow moments every now and then), opportunity and adventure. Sheesh. Like I said, I was a dreamer.
When we moved out here to California, we had all our belongings in a U-haul, 1,000 dollars saved up, no job and no place to live lined up. We were one day from becoming homeless before we found a gay landlord who gave us a place to stay with no job lined up. I can't help but wonder if that community spirit is no longer around to help people move to more tolerant places today.
We wanted San Francisco because of the gay community and what I thought the big city would be like. It was too expensive though, we ended up about an hour away, so we could still commute but afford a place to live. I found out city life wasn't for me. I'm more small town, and by that, I mean something the size of Tulsa (in the 80's, I don't know it's population now). I need to be around people just for the conveniences it provides. Everything from more employment options to having more restaurants or video stores to choose from, for all the reasons, big and small. The place I live now, has no gay nightlife, no clubs or anything like that, there are quite a few gay people, but no organizations, no community, we are just interspersed with everybody else. In a way that's a good thing, but in a way it keeps us from getting to experience that community spirit like I remember it from my past.
That's another topic though, but with our advancements in civil rights and the progresses we've made, and due to the fact that we no longer have to hide in dark bars like we did before stonewall, that 'connection' that made us brothers, that united us in the face of adversity seems to be slipping away. I lament that. I believe it lead us to our last election results. Can you imagine if every gay person was fired up about the amendment, had self-worth and wanted to speak with their vote? There is no doubt the numbers would have turned the election AND sent the message to the far right that we aren't going to be their whipping boy anymore. We wouldn't be going through all this shit if we were united.
The problem is that i don't know how to express them. Basically all my social skills come from TV. My parents weren't the ones that would show emotion or anything; so every time i feel that way i think to myself that if i try to express those feeling that it will come off like TV; not real.
Sometimes, like when I watch Will and Grace, I'll get in a comedic mode and say something very 'Karen'. Nobody gets it though, people probably think I'm crazy, oh well. I would think your social skills come from school too, and probably with a greater impact than the tv.
But what i can offer, i think should be a given. that i offer nothing more then that. Nothing special or unique.
You do, you just haven't zeroed in on what it is yet, probably because you haven't had enough relationships to sort that stuff out.
I don't get it. Maybe it's a generational thing. Why does everyone have to pick the same one? I don't see....if I picked Pam and everybody else picked Lois, why would I be wrong? I would just have different tastes. Is there really a wrong answer to a question like that for people today?To me i would have been wrong, since i didn't know which one was 'better'. I mean that i didn't know WTF straight guys found attractive or not, and i didn't want to be found out. There were only a few guys in my whole class, so the possibility of them all picking the same one was good, and if i didn't pick the 'right' one they might have asked me to justify my answer. Which i had no justification for.
Can you imagine if every gay person was fired up about the amendment, had self-worth and wanted to speak with their vote? There is no doubt the numbers would have turned the election AND sent the message to the far right that we aren't going to be their whipping boy anymore. We wouldn't be going through all this shit if we were united.
I would like to thank Bush. 'Thank Bush!' you say? Yes, i would like to thank him; because if it wasn't for that SOB i wouldn't have registered to vote, then voted for Kerry. Even though i lost twice, i can't be to blame.
:-)
I voted against Bush, and 711 (made OK's Constitution State Marriage is one male one female BS).
Sometimes, like when I watch Will and Grace, I'll get in a comedic mode and say something very 'Karen'. Nobody gets it though, people probably think I'm crazy, oh well. I would think your social skills come from school too, and probably with a greater impact than the tv.Gasp! Karen is my fav! When i think about that it's quite sad, actually. I starve for gay characters on TV/Movies, but on W&G Karren is my fav.
But my social skills are something i'm going to have to work on. but its hard when in one-on-one conversations.
Not too long ago, i was told something, something big, and it took a lot of trust to tell me. but every thought i was thinking of saying was littered with clichés and sounded like soap opera dialog (or what it think is soap opera dialog, since i don't watch soap's).
It sounded, even to me, to be a pile of BS. All those feeling that it would have expressed were there, but the wording made it sound like it wasn't; like i just quoted something that i seen on TV or a Movie.
So i paused, then he added something else, an explanation which he didn't need to give, and i told him that it was totally understandable, even though there was more i would have liked to have said. So there he was telling me something personal, and i couldn’t say a thing that sounded sincere, well sincere in my mind.
You do, you just haven't zeroed in on what it is yet, probably because you haven't had enough relationships to sort that stuff out.I see a mistake! You put an 'ed' after zero, and didn't put it beside relationships! That's right Zero Relationships. My dating life is non-existent. But really, i never been on a date.
Funny story, when i was at my old elementary school, a guy asked me out... looks good right? The guy was in his 40's and i was in my mid-10's. Sounds bad now, right? He was asking me out for his daughter. Sound funny, i know! But he was part of this local church, that has a tradition of marrying off there daughters come around 16 years of age. But that was before i became the 'devil', when i Sir'ed and Mam'ed everyone older then me.
Gasp! Karen is my fav! When i think about that it's quite sad, actually. I starve for gay characters on TV/Movies, but on W&G Karren is my fav.
What's sad? That Karen is your fav? She's my fav too, what's wrong with that? She's the funniest by far.
But my social skills are something i'm going to have to work on. but its hard when in one-on-one conversations.
well, for what it's worth, you write just fine, I haven't seen any cliches or anything soap operaish and frankly wouldn't care if I did see it. Someone who says cliches and witty flippant remarks and stuff, is a queen. And I don't mean that negatively as it's sometimes used, because I love queens. It's a positive thing in my book. I love diversity in all its forms, I love butch men, cross dressers, straight acting guys, effeminate guys, everybody's great in their own way and I always have a good time experiencing the diversity, so it's good when I say it. A queen isn't always effeminate as commonly thought of either, not by my definition. Jack on Will and Grace is a queen, but so is Karen. Not because of effeminancy but because they are sassy. God, I can't tell you how many times it seems like every person in a bar would make cliches and tv type conversation all night long. Granted, it might not be best when a friend is confiding in you, but it sounds like you are describing a queen. Witty, sassy one-liners. Snap, snap. you know?
really, i never been on a date.
You should do what you feel best doing, and if that means waiting more, wait more, but my humble opinion on that, being the age and perspective that I am now, is that you are only young once. Don't be 40 years old and regret that you didn't try this or that once when you were young. I'm not suggesting anything risky or dangerous but just a date, get out in the world while you still have your youth. It's one heck of a big asset to have and you'll miss it when it's gone. :-(
oh, I forgot to tell you, you said you were starving for gay characters. I wrote two reviews of some very good movies.
The Trip and Latter Days.
Above quality movies with some very good, positive characters, and realistic situations. I thought so anyway. Worth checking out.
What's sad? That Karen is your fav? She's my fav too, what's wrong with that? She's the funniest by far.What i think is sad is that i am starved for those gay characters, but on this show i'm taking most of my enjoyment from Karen. I guess it really isn't that sad, she is the funniest one.
---
I haven't seen any cliches or anything soap operaish and frankly wouldn't care if I did see it. They're around here. lol. But another thing that gets me is that i'm afraid. It's always a battle, to keep it sounding sincere while not letting much emotion out. I like to keep my emotions to myself, not that i want to, but it makes me feel safe. So basically it leaves me with almost nothing to say.
I'm afraid that if i let to much slip they might look at me differently. There is so much i would like to have said, to a lot of people, but never did. Tell people face to face how much i appreciate them, or even tell them that i think that they are damn hot. So much stuff i let slip through my fingers... but if i were to tell them that, what would happen? That scares me. I've lived my whole life predicting what people would say, and only perusing those that would give me positive feed back. But, like for instance, asking someone on a date, leaves me open: what will he say? I keep predicting negative answers.
In all honesty, i think that for me, coming out will be way easier then asking someone out. I guess because when i come out i'm not asking them for anything.
You should do what you feel best doing, and if that means waiting more, wait more, but my humble opinion on that, being the age and perspective that I am now, is that you are only young once.What i think is best for me, is to go out and get the first date over and done with, take some of the mystery out of it. But on the other hand, i feel that i'm incapable of doing that right now. I'm the poster boy for self-deprecation. Nothing i've done has been they way i wanted it, so it was wrong. This blog for instance was suppose to be about me coming out, but now it's about that and a billion other things. It use to be my drive, but as of now it's just a release.
I think before i start to think about these things, i think that i need to develop my network of gay friends. A person(s) who i spend some N amount of time with. I was thinking of going to the GLBT center on Fridays might be a good thing to start with. They told me that every Friday (movie night) they have a group of people that come regularly [they were mostly missing the day i went, just my luck :)].
But i need something, my gay friends can be counted on a single hand... missing 4 fingers. And my Straight Friend list isn't a good sight either. Basically after high school to now, those lists dwindled down to a gay guy, 2 homophobes, and my sister and her BF. And the homophobes, i now just consider people i ride to school with; so 3. 3 people, and 2 of them being on my list is plain pathetic.
but meeting new people isn't my best talent...
---
oh, I forgot to tell you, you said you were starving for gay characters. I wrote two reviews of some very good movies.
I have Latter Days, i even watched it with my sister.
Haven't seen 'The Trip'... i'm going to have to check and see if i can't find it around here.
I like to keep my emotions to myself, not that i want to, but it makes me feel safe.
Look at that sentence, and pretend you didn't write it, but are reading what someone else said. Can you see how that is a self-esteem issue? If you know it for what it is, that is the first step towards working on it.
But, like for instance, asking someone on a date, leaves me open: what will he say? I keep predicting negative answers.
Everybody has fear of rejection. Mine was probably as least as great as yours, I could never approach anybody. So whether it is right or wrong, this is how I solved that, and the approach worked for me. Eye contact.
Works better in a gay environment like a bar, rather than just 'out on the street'. But with some eye contact and a quick smile, guys would know if I found them interesting or not. Then they were free to approach me, and many times they did. But if they didn't approach me, there was really no rejection to face. Know what I mean? Maybe it's not an answer Dr. Phil would give as proper, but it worked for me. Oh, I got good with that 'come hither' look.
But i need something, my gay friends can be counted on a single handWell, even though we are across country, different generations and other stuff, consider me a friend. Even across the internet, I can see you have a heart of gold and would be honored to be your friend.
I'm the poster boy for self-deprecation.
I was the reigning queen who wore that tiara for awhile. You gotta work on that, but don't sweat it, you'll get there once you just take the first step it gets easier, it's not that hard to do really. Not only is confidence as sexy as a tight set of abs, but it goes farther too. Confidence will help you in friendship, job interviews, etc. whereas tight abs won't necessarily.
I think though, if you decide that small town life is for you, you will need to come to an acceptance of having a small circle of friends, become at peace with it, or you will go crazy.
If wanting to be more of the gay community is a big part of your dream, but you aren't willing to make the changes to make that a reality, then if you think about it, you are experiencing an unhappiness that only you can do something about. There's nothing anybody else can do to step in and fix that. And people who tend to remain in misery/depression that only they can fix, tend to drive others away. It's not fun to be around. A snowball effect.
Look at that sentence, and pretend you didn't write it, but are reading what someone else said. Can you see how that is a self-esteem issue? If you know it for what it is, that is the first step towards working on it.Oh, i don't have to pretend. I see it. When writing that two things came to my mind: Self-esteem and Power. I knew it wasn't power. Power isn't my thing, i like to give up control just not when it comes to my emotions. Maybe my lack of wanting power is due to the lack of my self-esteem.
Everybody has fear of rejection. Mine was probably as least as great as yours, I could never approach anybody. So whether it is right or wrong, this is how I solved that, and the approach worked for me. Eye contact.Eh, eye contact... I guess that is probably one of the easier things to work on, but when i do look into peoples eyes (or even at people themselves), even by accident i feel really really shy. Like this big wave of shyness hit me, and i'll look away every time. I not saying that i'm not shy normally, quite the opposite, i'm almost 24/7 mousy: pump half a bottle of tequila in me that changes, though.
Well, even though we are across country, different generations and other stuff, consider me a friend. Even across the internet, I can see you have a heart of gold and would be honored to be your friend.If i were to make a list of friends, an absolute list, i would include a couple people that comment on this blog. Basically because people here have probably done more to help me then many people i have actually met. Maybe that is because ya'll know way more about me then they do. I think if there was a game show where you had to answer questions about me, i think that people from my blog would have an upper hand... going against my own mother!
Sure i know that a couple people i know have found this blog *waves "I know your reading, it's ok, comment!"*. I can look through my little stat counter results and see that i've been found by searching my name with where i was born. And i don't care. I mean, if i didn't want you to know i wouldn't post it. I say that now, but if Donnie ever found it, i would die.
So thanks!
If wanting to be more of the gay community is a big part of your dream, but you aren't willing to make the changes to make that a reality, then if you think about it, you are experiencing an unhappiness that only you can do something about. There's nothing anybody else can do to step in and fix that. And people who tend to remain in misery/depression that only they can fix, tend to drive others away. It's not fun to be around. A snowball effect.
Yea, i know. I sit at my house and think "i'd like some gay friends i can just hang out with", and remain seated. Like i'm expecting them to bust out of my closet and say "Hay! we're here and we're queer, get your jacket we're going out!"
So i think i'll put aside my Fridays, from 6:30pm to 9:00pm and go to the GLBT Center and watch movies with them. When i went there were only about 5 people there, but as i said, a couple (almost half i think she said) was MIA. Not only would be be good to be out of the house, but i will be around people like me.
Post a Comment
Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]
<< Home